Work in Progress – People & Culture
Work in Progress – People & Culture (P&C) - is a talk series that features thought leaders from the P&C and HR industries. Session's CEO Pernille Brun leads these discussions to uncover the latest trends shaping the future of work and the evolving landscape of P&C.
Through these sessions, we explore how P&C and HR can effectively support organizations, leaders, and employees to adapt to the changing demands of the workforce. We also delve into what strategies P&C departments can implement to maximize their contribution and influence on the overall business.
Work in Progress – People & Culture
The Power of Strengths-Based Leadership – with Morten Schou Andersen from ISS Danmark
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What if the fastest way to improve business performance isn't fixing what’s broken, but amplifying what already works?
In this episode Morten Schou Andersen, Director of Sales at ISS Danmark, challenges the standard management habit of fixing weaknesses and explores how focusing on strengths delivers a far higher return on investment.
Drawing from his background in competitive swimming, Morten shares how treating strengths as a high-leverage business tool builds resilient, high-performing sales teams that win without defaulting to burnout. Together, we unpack how HR and commercial leaders can move past problem-fixing to build an ambitious, trust-driven culture.
In this episode, we explore:
- The ROI of Focus: Why fixing weaknesses drains energy, while doubling down on strengths accelerates results.
- The Ship Metaphor: How to categorize performance issues—identifying holes below the waterline versus cosmetic scratches versus sails.
- Post-Pitch Debriefs: Why the first question you ask after a client presentation sets the tone for confidence and learning.
- Power Dynamics & Trust: Unpacking "neutral" leadership questions, effective delegation, and designing sales teams around complementary strengths.
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Welcome and Morten’s background
Pernille Hippe BrunWelcome to Work in Progress, a podcast featuring thought leaders with interesting perspectives on HR and people and culture. My name is Pernille Hippe Brun, and in these talks we explore the latest trends shaping the future of work. In this episode, I'm speaking with Morten Schou Andersen, who is the director of solutions sales at the Danish founded but global company ESS. Not to be mistaken as the International Space Station, but rather a major global workplace experience and facility management company. So let me start out by introducing our guest today, Morgan Skoansen. And he will introduce himself in a minute. But I would like to say this is a first for us in this podcast series because we've never had a manager or leader in the episodes before. It's usually someone from PNC or HR or whatever they call it. But today we invited you.
Morten Schou AndersenA commercial leader.
Pernille Hippe BrunA commercial leader. Even. Even. So let's start out by digging a little bit further into who you are, and then maybe we can touch back on why I found it relevant to speak with you today about a topic which is close to my heart, strength-based leadership, but also why it might be of interest for HR or PNC to uh learn from a manager like you what your views are on leadership and uh also perhaps some good advice for HR in terms of leaning into this paradigm, why that might be a good idea. So welcome Morten.
Morten Schou AndersenThank you very much, Pernille.
Pernille Hippe BrunYeah, can you tell us a little bit about uh your background?
Morten Schou AndersenI definitely can, and but but uh first of all, thank you for inviting me. It's also a debut for me. So um and and being the first leader, uh now I feel the pressure already. Um but I'm but I'm Morton, I'm first and foremost 42 years old and uh married to Simona have three kids. I think uh professionally uh as well as uh private, I've always been uh within high performance environments. So I have a background uh from a vest time outside Copenhagen, where I spent all of my time doing uh swimming, competition swimming. And that also uh affected my choice of study at CBS, studying a master in there.
Pernille Hippe BrunSo CBS is Copenhagen.
Morten Schou AndersenCopenhagen Business School, yes. Copenhagen where I took my took my master in management and in marketing. So today I'm a director of sale in ISS. Yes, this huge, huge Danish company uh present in in more than 60 countries all over the world, where I lead the Danish sales division. And ISS is is in short for uh That's the first tricky question, Pinil, because uh like when you ask people what are your values, we all think we know them and we don't know them, but it's probably something around international service system. It could be whatever it's
From Facility Services To Workplace Experience: How workplace experience shifts from input to outcome and why that matters for leadership
Morten Schou Andersenfacilities, it's cleaning, it's cleaning, it's uh canteen, it's uh technical service, it's actually facilitating the workplace. Okay. So, what we're trying to do and and support our customers within is to create the for them the optimal working environment. So take over all of the you know the practical tasks which we are known from the cleaning. But today it's not it's not so much about cleaning, it's more the outcome of cleaning because we know when people come to work, like in your beautiful office, if there is clean, uh they actually have um they actually believe it it strengthen the satisfactions within the employees, and the same with the food, it's no longer uh uh about uh going down there at 11:30 and have enough food to work more. It's actually a still a place where you socialize with your colleagues.
Pernille Hippe BrunOh, so so the service you deliver uh heightens the quality of uh the work conditions.
Morten Schou AndersenFor the work the work experience. Yeah, it's super fantastic. And there's also been a big change uh within our company to go from the more traditional input-based contracts and the dialogue that comes with that, how often do you clean, how many hours, to go to a more value-based approach in and discussion. Uh most of the time, so we say we are customers within the HR function at our clients, discussion which which sorts of workplace do you want to be, what are the talents you want to attract, and so on. Which also means it's super interesting. Yes. I have I have a fantastic work, yes, but but also means that we there is a huge transformation within our company, also on the focus on our company and the services we deliver.
Pernille Hippe BrunYes.
Morten Schou AndersenBecause after Corona, especially, uh the view on companies like ISS changed.
Pernille Hippe BrunIn what way? Because uh the in-office or work became less popular.
Morten Schou AndersenI'm biased, of course. Yes, but I experienced uh that we have become more important for our customers because they really realize that uh catering for the employees, especially in Denmark, where we have scarce resources, lack of talent, the unemployment rate is low, uh, companies' ability to attract the right talents and also bring them back to the office to get the culture right. We have uh we have a huge stake in that from the from ISS, which means that um we have many exciting dialogues with the customers on the outcome of our services compared to earlier on the input from our services.
Pernille Hippe BrunOh, that is very interesting.
Morten Schou AndersenIt's super interesting.
Pernille Hippe BrunOh, we could do a whole episode around this topic, just you know, but then it would be like advertised by ISS. Of course, of course, and today we're here to speak about leadership, yeah, exactly. And your approach to uh creating a winning culture, I would almost assume.
Morten Schou AndersenYes.
Pernille Hippe BrunUm, and that's a guess because I actually don't know if that's how you think about it. But I invited you because you uh early on, I wrote the book about strengths-based leadership together with David Cooper and Miguel Ising, and uh you are on the back of the book with a quote. Yes. Maybe I can read it out loud. It says the strengths-based approach marked a transformative shift in my leadership. Too often, a strong focus on problems overshadows the market opportunities that drive commercial momentum. This book provides practical tools to grow your team's natural talents and turning them into real performance and well-being in an ambitious environment. So I discovered you through you being on the back cover of the book. Um, and I was curious to hear your story because of the focus on the how it can drive the business results. Yes. And so it's not just uh it sounds like a nice to have for you, but more like this is a methodology or means to something bigger.
Morten Schou AndersenYeah, it is a need to have. For me, uh the strength-based approach is of course focus on uh strength, but it's first and foremost performance. Uh for me, the strength-based uh the strength-based approach is a methodology or a way to secure that we deliver on the ambitions that we set for each other. Because I um we talked before we started. I I grew up in in swimming, um being on the national team and etc. And and you you train a lot when you do swimming from an early age. And the primarily part of that time you focus on your strength. So there are four disciplines in in swimming. I uh my preferred one was the breast stroke, so I really practices that a lot. Um I'm really, I was still are really not good at a backstroke swimming. But in sports, that's that's kind of okay if you're good at something else. So let's focus on that. Of course, if you have some minor things that come across you succeeding in your abuse, you train to that, but you focus a lot on your strength. Then you go to uh school and you uh get your first job, and then you uh really fast learn that you focus a lot on your weaknesses and what goes wrong. And I also did that. Um and I was also quite good at that. Um I'm I'm quite critical by nature, I'm quite ambitious, I want to set new. I'm also motivated by transformations. So I also think I actually looked after things that I could fix. And you never in an organization, I believe that's at least what I'm trying to say in that quote, there's always someone around you who tells you the problem. Um but not all people come with a solution or focus on which strengths do we have within the organization now we could use to make those weaknesses or weak spots or whatever it's called, um mean lets, if you could say it like that. And I think that for me, I say it's a transformative shift. That's probably also because it's a quote on the back of a book. Because I perhaps there's not it's not one dramatic change in my life waking up one morning realizing that now I need to change. But I think from early on I I became a leader at a young age. Um I think the owner uh and the CEO of the company I worked with in, he put a lot of trust into young people, and I really benefited from that. But the honest is also that in many areas I didn't tell anyone that time, I didn't know what to do. And then it's and and and if you are then good at identifying problems, um at that time as well, probably to create a burning platform. So if you are convincing in doing that and and and you are willing to work a lot to put pressure on the organization, you you actually succeed very fast. But as I grew older and also become a manager or leader for for more people, I realized that I spent a lot of time um sitting together and one-to-one, so performance meetings, discussing with people how we can like lift a performance from middle to a little bit better, you could say, or compared to going back to more the strategy of the sports and saying, okay, if we're really good
Why Strength-Based Leadership Drives Performance
Morten Schou Andersenat that, how can we apply that in even more places to secure the performance that we need? So, how can we open up new ways utilizing your strength, putting you together or mixing the team in a different way so that of course if the weaknesses are too big, we need to we need to move them in. But but if there are some scratches, how can how can we do it in a different way? So we as a team deliver the competence we need to succeed, to drive the performance, to really get them the results, the ambitious result we need. Yeah. I try to that that's three lines in my version.
Pernille Hippe BrunOh great. So it's very interesting because you said you started out with that other methodology of fixing problems and looking at, you know, here's a we call it a hole below the waterline in the ship's metaphor, which is like if if there's a weakness, it's it's like uh it can be a big hole underneath the waterline or or a scratch in the surface. And and of course, if it's a hole underneath the waterline, you need to fix it and do something about it and focus on it. But the sail on the ship, yeah, the metaphor of that is the strength and what's actually driving us forward. And we tend to focus too much on the holes and the scratches, even, and and too little on the sails. So but you were looking at those holes like any traditional manager perhaps would. Yeah. And what then happened? Did you did you feel drained yourself, or what made you turn or look for something else, or look for another way?
Morten Schou AndersenWas it like I realized that it's a tough strategy to to focus too much on the weaknesses because you you can you can definitely get the results, but over time it it kind of takes out the energy of the team because if you continue to fight the the big important battles, you could say, then you're always under pressure. And of course, if the hole is too big, uh then you need to fix it. Um sometimes you don't even need to change it, you just need to stop what you're doing. But it it it tends to also be black and white. So if you create a situation where you where you always need to fix a huge problem fast, uh you tend to see even smaller problems, the sc the smaller scratches above the water, you tend to see them as big problems. And and and it takes up too much time, both for your uh own leadership role, but also for the team you're driving. And it's and it's tough. Um people it's it's it's it's not that I experienced that everyone burns out because there is also a lot of energy and and momentum and in fixing problems, you get proud, you can celebrate, but but and it goes fast often. Um but in the long run I I just realized that when we um when we put people together and and and involve them even more in what could be the different solutions to a problem, or how could we improve from what we do from good to great? How how can we really go from that what we're doing is is really good, but what we we could be fantastic.
Pernille Hippe BrunYeah. So focusing on that rather than just the mediocre performance.
Morten Schou AndersenYes, because it it it it creates uh a different type of energy, it's just people free. Um you you get you get even more good ideas within it. Uh because there is also some satisfaction uh in realizing as a team or as an organization that we have those minor scratches, they're super annoying. But they are not irrelevant, but they seem more irrelevant now than earlier because we focused over here. Okay. So I think both today at least, looking into new markets or new commercial strategies or making new plans, the methodology of of looking into the host first. I think everyone would do that. But I really try to start on okay. Yes, which which strengths do we already have in place that we could utilize? Are there strengths where we can by mix them in in another way we can progress even more? Of course, also then look into are are there something are there something that's trying to that we don't do well that we need to perform better on? Or are we doing are we doing things which do not benefit the organizations that we simply need to stop? They they are equally important. But I think for for me it's about getting the resource, driving the right performance, creating the high performance teams. I just but I think I've learned over the years that uh my team performs better, um, they help each other more, they um they are happier, they perhaps stay a little bit longer. Uh and for me personally, it's just more fun.
Pernille Hippe BrunWow.
Morten Schou AndersenAnd it's easier for me uh because we utilize the joint capabilities of the team compared to someone sit behind closed doors, identifying what we do wrong, and then yeah. So it's funny.
Pernille Hippe BrunSo it it's both a personal choice, but it's also an effectiveness or result-oriented or ambitious choice to to get the best out of whatever we have.
Morten Schou AndersenIt is, and the most important when you go to work because I also have obligations to the organizations, uh, I also have goals. So this is this is a tool for me to deliver on that. But but there is a personal side of it for for me also. Um we jump a little bit, but I think for for for me, I grew up I grew up in the sports. I I grew up in uh that is a high performance environment and and and sometimes it is tough. But you also learned that um no one is there training so many hours if they don't have a deep passion for it. So I think uh for me there's also something in this bros that for me at least, to really identify who am I as a person, not not as a leader solely, but also as a person or father or colleague or employee, whatever, who am I as a person and what and what are the strengths within that. Also identifying what are the weaknesses within my managerial ways of working. I'm super dependent that uh my managers or my colleagues or my employees put trust into me. So I'm also super aware of me putting trust into them. Yes. Um and um and that's that's a core skill for me in leadership. That there are some things within every job that you that you it's difficult to be a salesperson without performing well in CRM. We cannot discuss whether that's support, we just need to do it. So it's not that there are some minimum standards in number jobs, but it's super important for me that I that I have a team around me that I trust. Because if I don't trust them, it's difficult for me to then lose and to deploy responsibilities, create this empower, empowerment around it, and also look on the strength. So I need to believe that I have the right strengths on both. Yeah, so the trust is is necessary. So I think as I think I have strengthened my leadership that I'm I'm able to put a lot of trust into my people.
Pernille Hippe BrunYeah, so it's part of your strength, own strength profile to naturally trust.
Morten Schou AndersenI hope. And it's important and it's important for me also to to back the team. It's important for me uh both, you know, back them in supporting their association both internally and externally, and and keep a safe room around them so when we make mistakes or we are within the area with the minor scratches, that we can have an honest conversation about that. But when we go out, we are a team, we stay together. Um I'm also super ambitious and I'm very performance-driven. And I uh it could also be both parts, but I also want to win. Yes, and I think
The Ship Metaphor For Individual and Team Development
Morten Schou Andersenit's quite clear from my surroundings that I want to win with high ambitions. Um and uh I hope I've learned that at least in some years that that that creates both um help me here, followship, you could say for the team, but it also creates uh enthusiasm and energy and and that. So that's and and yeah, that yeah some people will call it passion, you know, that you have this. It's important, it's important me, it's important for me to come to work and be yourself. It it doesn't mean you have to bring your entire self, but you you should go to work and be yourself. Yeah. And and and I believe that many of the things that I do well on job is probably also some of the things I do well at home. And some of the disadvantages of my profile in job, you could say the weaknesses or whatever, is also the disadvantages and the weaknesses I have at home.
Pernille Hippe BrunYeah, so you can become too ambitious, you can become too result-driven or and also too uh trustful, very unpatient.
Morten Schou AndersenUm I like everything to happen now or yesterday. But I realized, I've learned at least, that if you put a lot of uh uh ownership and responsibility into the hands of a team that you work together with, most people uh enjoy that and take that. And and most people live up to it. Yeah and and uh of course you can spend an entire career pinpointing the things you want to do better. And I also I also have a very honest conversation if I believe we should do something better. But most of the time, the employees or the teams or the colleagues, they already know. We already know when we do good and also when we do bad.
Pernille Hippe BrunSo so to some sum up, what is strength-based leadership for you? What what does it consist of? What is the paradigm or methodology?
Morten Schou AndersenUm for for me, it's it's a way of ensuring performance. It's not lowering the bar, but it's a way of uh bringing people in into the strategizing or the decision making, focusing on our common skills or joint skills or pool of skills, compared to okay, what did we do wrong the last time and let's fix that. I'd much rather spend my time on when we go having a presentation for a client, we do that a lot. I also believe we are I believe we are actually quite good at it, but we make mistakes every time. But I think it's super important that the immediate evaluation we have afterwards with the team who did the presentation. I think it's super important for us to talk to each other what did we do well. Oh what really worked today?
Pernille Hippe BrunSo that's a question you asked.
Morten Schou AndersenThat's the first question I ask.
Pernille Hippe BrunOkay.
Morten Schou AndersenSo what would you do well? And then we take uh a tour around the table and people say what we do well. Yes. Because uh there's also a lesson learned if you ever are paint with the white uh brush now. But if you tend to ask people, so what do you think? How did we do today? If you are in a team with ambition people, high performing people, they they tend to be more critical than average. So most often people say it went okay, but I could have done better there. And and most often when we when you ask the audience, everyone did quite good. So if a colleague says, okay, this person over here thought he could do better, it's they're almost it's almost necessary to say, I agree with you, we did okay, but I could also have done better. Compared to if you ask what did we do well. So what what did you really what really went well? Is there something that we need to remember to do the last time because it really worked? Then you start the other conversation. Of course, we then also ask, are there something we could improve? Are there minor details to say? Um, but it's important for me to start the other way around.
Pernille Hippe BrunYes. And it it sounds like you uh realize that there's no such thing as a neutral question.
Morten Schou AndersenNo, there there is not, uh uh especially not in leadership, because there is always this asymmetric dimension between who's asking the question and whose answer. Yes. So if you are an employee in my team and I ask you to evaluate yourself, we are not talking as equals. No, and it took many years for me to learn that because you can as a leader come in with a you know with an open heart and a desire for you to grow or other things, but you have to remember the power relationship. Yes, you need to do that.
Pernille Hippe BrunSo, how do you do it then? If you want me to learn and grow, what kind of questions would you ask me rather than uh so assess yourself on this scale or whatever?
Morten Schou AndersenYeah, that's a tough question. It's an important question. So, what do I do? Um, I prepare in the conversation, even though I would when my employees hear that some of them will say no you're not. But I actually I actually do, but I perhaps but I prepare on the softer side of it. So, what could be difficult for you to acknowledge? What is the what is the difficult conversation? Not forcing it through, but uh I'll much rather have you reflecting on your performance, you could say, on what is okay, what is it that I do well that can do even more.
Pernille Hippe BrunSo that's one question.
Morten Schou AndersenYeah, that's one question. And and but um and and and and what really worked. And I'm super curious. That's also you said before we started in in this session, you talked to a lot of interesting people, and that's energized you. For me, it's the same in those conversations. I also get energized in talking about dreams and ambitions and what can we do better. So so it's uh I don't spend much energy on doing that. It's more difficult for me to know to look after invoices and other, but I think but I'm curious on what they think, and it's important for me that they understand what they do well. Uh because especially when you are now I have the um I mean I'm director of sales that's salespeople that's often above average more expert people, ambitious people, people who tend to work many hours or some periods, so so they are critical by nature. So it's important for me to to realize the other part of it also and help them understand that in which areas can they really make a difference compared to spending too much time on my backstroke swimming, which I could I could train for 20 years and I could maximum get average. And it it is much more the investment is much better doing the breaststroke methodology and become really good at that.
Pernille Hippe BrunDid anyone from HR ever encourage you to ask this way, or was this your own finding or doing or whatever? Is is there um a policy around how you ask questions that you can lean into, or are you alone with this way of being a manager?
Morten Schou AndersenNo. Your current position or no, not at all. Um I'm I'm definitely not alone. And I think also uh my current leader really teach uh he teaches I I get inspired of his way of working also within this this this this methodology. Um I think I start a little bit earlier. I I I grew up in the service industry and in a family-owned business, and I was also experienced that in family-owned business, even in larger family-owned business, HR is not the biggest department on the organizational chart. So I think for good or for bad, uh both, um I I learned leadership skills by trial
Feedback Questions That Change Everything
Morten Schou Andersenand error.
Pernille Hippe BrunOkay.
Morten Schou AndersenUh they put a uh I received a lot of trust and I and I I I really think I did something good, but I also made a lot of mistakes. So I think I've been lucky in my life to be surrounded by people who really wanted to help me, guide me, coach me into the conversation, what what works, what doesn't work. So of course uh ISS is a is a much larger um is a much larger organization than the the prior one. And I think I think we have many good policies around how do we approach our people uh in a motivating way, in a respectful way. How do we ensure uh equal opportunities and how do we ensure that we have you know fixed meetings around development and so on? But I think performance culture is some is still something that everyone wants high-performing teams. Um but I think there is a possibility of discussing even more, at least also from an HR perspective. What does does what does a high-performing team or commercial culture, what does it mean for the organization, how do we motivate it, how do we measure it? Um because we talk a lot about work-life balance. I'm trying not to be critical, I'm talking in broader terms here. We talk a lot about work-life balance, but some of the my colleagues in periods of their life, they do not want balance, they want to be high performing on their work. Um, and uh going back to the book, this for me is a tool to ensure the high performance work. Yeah. And and I actually think we could we could we could have a broader discussion that that uh perhaps help me a little bit, we could have a broader discussion on how can we without uh walking away from all of the good development we have within HR being more respectful, uh involving creating a larger empowerment, how can we also utilize that force you could say to drive even more ambitious and high performing teams?
Pernille Hippe BrunYeah. So so that would be if it makes sense. It it totally makes sense. And it's interesting because I I'm curious to hear why why did you say I'm trying not to be critical?
Morten Schou AndersenUm, it's it's because I actually think uh the discussion around performance is a difficult one. I I actually think there is a huge potential in being honest around ourselves and our organization, what does it take to win and which competences does it take to deliver that? Because I I I experienced that most often the the competences are within the organization, but we need to set the team in a different way. And and it and it tends to be if we talk too much about performance, uh perhaps within an HR environment, some could hear it as old school, we need to put pressure, we need to do a burning platform, we need to tell people to get up early and go to bed late. Uh and and and I have learned also with the team I have right now. I I am super proud of the team that we all together have built within the organization is that um they they support each other in delivering high performance. They do that by supporting each other, helping each other, but they also um but they also that's not the right word, have demands for each other, yeah, expectations for each other, they hold each other accountable for delivering the results that we agreed on. And that it it that doesn't have to be the old way of doing it. For me, this framework and other frameworks is even better to secure that. Yes. But you need to be aware of it and you need to and you need to stay true to it for a long time to see the results.
Pernille Hippe BrunSo so it's uh it sounds like an invitation to to enter this dialogue of without fear or uh take the gloves off, kind of uh to to be honest about what it takes to deliver high performance and that there are ways, new ways, not necessarily old ways, yeah to uh create that environment that doesn't have to mean, like you said, more hours or more pressure. At the burning platform.
Morten Schou AndersenIf we don't do that, then we are yes, exactly. So there are other ways to Yeah, I would I I would say that because for me there is a huge motivation in sitting together with a team or an organization and and saying we cannot decide for ourselves whether we will be world champions, but we can decide to pursue the ambition. And and and and that what gets me up early up in the morning, sometimes late in bed.
Pernille Hippe BrunYeah. Um so when I asked you, did did you get any help, or were were you given any frameworks and stuff, and and then we ended up having a very meaningful talk, in my opinion, about performance. Yeah. Um when it comes to how can we create a culture, uh, nurture a culture of um or a mindset, a winning culture of ambition, of wanting to develop and grow and learn together. Yeah. Um it sounded like you you've seen that HR both has, of course, the same agenda, but also another agenda which is to secure and take care of people, and that it's sometimes mixed up, that those two agendas don't go well together in HR or it's difficult for me to conclude whether they mix up in HR.
Morten Schou AndersenI I don't think. I think we also have the same goal, but but um I believe driving the performance culture, especially within sales, for me is is is one part of the entire HR framework within an organization, you could say. And in an organization, in the service industry, I think ISS is around 350,000 employees. The largest part of that is is our is our placemakers, is our cleaning employees, is our chefs, is our technicians. So, of course, also in the HR bandwide, you could say there needs to be the majority
HR And The Hard Conversation About Performance
Morten Schou Andersenof the focus needs to be on that. Um but I think uh it's okay for me to at least to say I think we have huge potential within the performance culture and the discussion around performance culture and and and how we can utilize the competences that we have even better compared to the more black and white perspective. I either we either we can it or we cannot. Either this is an advantage or it's a disadvantage. I would like to to see more nuances within that. So see what are the problems that we really need to solve fast.
Pernille Hippe BrunAnd it's interesting because it sounds like you're almost making the same shift or presenting a perspective of a shift that like from the old ISS where how many hours did we deliver to more like what outcome did that create and what did yeah, what did it give it, give the customer to to the same thing here where you have the focus shifting from what rules are there to apply to how do you how do you live up to the rules, whatever.
Morten Schou AndersenAnd and then a shift to how do we help nurture and create a culture of performance and that's a huge transformation in the client dialogue we had, and because of that shift in dialogue, we we of course also need to assess what are the competences, who are the right people to enter those conversations with our customers. Going back to HR, the processes and the frameworks and our leadership style, of course, also need to adapt to that. So when we bring in new uh persons in the sales organization with a different background, with different expectations for management, trust, um, IT capabilities, are we using iPhones or Samsung? Whatever, of course, we need to adapt our mindset and our frameworks to that. But I also see that bringing those bringing in those ambitious people or specialists within their fields, they also make uh uh different demands to me as a leader. And I need to adapt to that. But what's coming from all of them is that they demand trust, they demand involvement, um they uh they they demand that they can uh develop their strength or their client knowledge. And and and perhaps again with the wider person from when I started, I I've been a leader now for 15 or 16 years. They they expect less instruction and more mandate. Still the the coaching part or the inspiration part, but if they are capable of doing something very good, they also expect me as their leader to let them do that and and not interrupt them too often.
Pernille Hippe BrunOkay, so that's a shift you also noticed that also on the demand side, something is happening.
Morten Schou AndersenYeah, but uh the demand side for them to stay motivated, to stay energized, to stay longer in the organization, they they they they want to do that. And I think perhaps Jason Um we um I think we have put together a team in the sales organization which focuses uh on exactly what this book is about the strength. So bringing in uh people uh with different background, uh different education, different level of seniority within sales. Um several of them not coming from a sales career but from consultancy and others, because we could see what it takes to win and succeed on the ambitions we have, and it creates a different and it it takes different competences. So we need to put together a team with those different competences. Going 10 years back, you look at a salesperson and you expected them, they should be expert in identifying the prospect, they should uh be able to cold call. Then they had to be specialists in an RFP, writing 50 pages of a proposal, do the negotiation and hand over to operation. If you find that person, please give him my number because I want that person in my team, but they are very difficult to find. For me, there's also a joy in identifying okay, what are the core competences within each stage of the you know the kind the client's buying cycle or say six, whatever? What are the different competences needed? How can we put together a team and be experts within that, work together, so we end up delivering even better on our ambitions?
Pernille Hippe BrunOkay, so that was almost a very nice weaved way into summing up and ending this uh episode today because uh you've been telling us about your own background within sports and how it fitted with becoming a manager or didn't fit with how the paradigm was focusing more on weaknesses perhaps than on strengths, and your own urge to do something different, and then finding a methodology or whatever that was in aligned more with who you are as an authentic manager or person. And and then you took it out to the broader perspective of how we can nurture this culture overall in an organization through the help of HR, but also each manager perhaps stepping up and just living it.
Morten Schou AndersenYeah. And yeah, but yeah, because if if a canada thing for me it's
Building Sales Teams By Complementary Strengths
Morten Schou Andersenis is of course, you need to identify who you are and stay true to that. And also as a leader, where you under Copenhagen Business School, you are also brought up to believe that you you should be capable of doing it all. And again, some people might be able to do that. I'm not. So also stay true to who I am, both as an employee, colleague, and a leader, and utilize the strength and be honest towards your employees or okay, what it is that I'm really good at at and where is also my mistakes? Because then I believe it's easier for the colleagues or the employees or the team as a whole also to be honest about themselves and say, listen, I also have weak spots. Yeah, and that's okay because everyone has them. But but within this or this area, I'm really good. So how can you bring that even more to play? I think that's a funny, that's a good day at work when we have those discussions.
Pernille Hippe BrunLovely. So is there anything I haven't asked you that you would have liked for me to ask you.
Morten Schou AndersenIt's like going to the exam. Do you have anything you want to add in the end? And you also have to add something? No, but I think no, but I I think I think there is uh there is there is a blue ocean with this within this methodology. I generally believe that because I think as I initiated the conversation, most often someone in the room would mention the weaknesses or the problem we have or the or the project that we cannot fail. The word turnaround is used a lot within all organizations. So we need to balance that. So I I think uh perhaps a relevant question or focus for you also going forward is it how can it become even easier to tip that balance a little? So within other areas, we talk about quotes and and everything others, and and and for me this is not a paradigm shift, it's an evolvement on how you do leadership, you could say. And I can definitely approve a lot also reading the book uh again. But I think we we need to hold each other accountable within the teams or in the broad organization to stay really true on what do we do well, and how can we build for that and and and and and what is HR role within that? What are our sales roles within that, or what is the operational role within that? Because um I want to win and I want to find the easiest way of doing it. And I think I think with all the faults I have, all the mistakes I do, I think reminding on the ship, on what are your strengths, what are the what are the problems beneath the water, and and and what are the scratches above the surface. I have that constantly in the back of my head when recruiting or strategizing or go to clients.
Pernille Hippe BrunSo without further ado, thank you so much for joining us today. No very relevant long answers. I loved it. Thank you so much.
Morten Schou AndersenSuper.
Final Takeaways And Where To Learn More
Morten Schou AndersenThank you, Pernille.
Pernille Hippe BrunYou've been listening to the Work in Progress podcast on people and culture. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to share on social media. For more resources on people, culture, and working in a modern world, please visit get session.com and check out our articles, guides, webinars, and more. Thanks for listening.
