Welcome And Culture First Impressions

Speaker 0:05

Welcome to Work in Progress, a podcast featuring thought leaders with interesting perspectives on HR and people and culture. My name is Pernille Hippe Brun, and in these talks we explore the latest trends shaping the future of work. Today I'm speaking with Britt Bargfeldt, VP of Group Talent and HR Development at Stark Group, one of Northern Europe's largest retailers and distributors of building materials. Britt has helped scale Stark from 5,000 to 20,000 employees, three new markets, and helped organize and shape the organizational structure and design along the way. Britt has a deep background in global talent strategy and a passion for making learning stick in a fast-paced and operational environment. Brit is commercially driven and people-oriented and has a strong track record within HR, people, and culture. So, Britt, we are at the Stark headquarters, the Stark Group headquarters. And when I arrived this morning to a headquarter, I rang the bell and the door was open for me, and there was a man holding the elevator for me, which in itself was quite, you know, surprising because usually people just mind their own business, and if if they are about to go on an elevator, they'll hurry up and do whatever they need to do. But he was actually holding the elevator for me, and we had a little chit-chat. Uh, and he uh took off at the second floor. I went to the fourth floor, and there was another person greeting me and waiting for me there, which in itself says something about your company culture, I believe. And you have the title of I'm the vice president of uh talent and HR development. Exactly. Yes. So I believe you might have something to do with that culture, and that's uh one of the things I I'm very curious about to dig further into today. But why don't you start by introducing

Who Britt Is Beyond The Resume

Speaker 2:10

yourself? Who who are you? Um It's funny because it's something you ask people when you are interviewing them for a position or something, and I'm always a little bit uh struggling with should I say something personal about myself or should I start with my resume and what I've been doing in my career? Yes. Um the letter. Oh, so you ask me whether you but I'm like okay, but it's interesting you have that reflection. Um on top of you know the question itself. Um what would you prefer? Um I think that well, I would I think I would actually just prefer to say a little bit about myself first, because that may say something about what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Yes. Um well, first of all, actually, when I think about it now, it's I'm a mother uh of two kids. Uh I'm a world traveler. I've been traveling a lot in my life, uh also by myself. Um I'm a feminist, I'm a really good cook, I'm a passionate knitter, painter. Uh I have this whole creative side of my life that is not really incorporated in the corporate world, but I try to drag it in wherever I can. Yes. Um I'm very curious by nature, I would say. I'm uh from a very young age, I started hiking. Uh I haven't done that as much the last 20 years, actually, but I have a house uh in this forest of Sweden where I spent time and reflect. Yes. Uh so I love nature as well. Yes. Wow. Yeah. So and that says a lot about you. So what made you want to start there? Uh rather than the corporate resume education. In some ways, uh I love being here at at Stark, and I actually also like the corporate world. But there are part of the corporate world where I cannot really identify myself with. Okay. So I I start there to say that there's also another side of me that I and I try to combine these two, and and uh and sometimes it's easy and sometimes it hard it's hard, but it's uh I I try to insist to uh to have these two sides of me coexist in some way. Yeah, co coexistence. So co the coexistence of the two sides of you uh also shapes the way you probably inhabit uh if we could say so, your your position and the way you Yeah, I would I would say so. I would say so that the one can really thrive without the other. No. Um so yes, it's it's uh it's a thing that I think a lot about also in my daily life. How can I make room for both of these sides of me? So I looked at your resume. So uh and it also looks like you don't have the traditional background leading up to inhabiting, if that's the word we use, your position today. Can you tell us a little bit more about your educational background? Yes.

From Chaos Pilot To Organizational Psychology

Speaker 5:25

Uh I'm I'm uh I've been part of the Chaos Pilot School, uh, which is uh a professional bachelor. Um and then after I I had been there or graduated, I started out uh in a small startup that became a scale-up um in an IT company where we made uh video games. It was back in 2004, I think I started there, and then I was there for six years. Yes. Um, but during my time there, I felt that I needed something else. I I was quite interested in scaling the things uh or or scaling the organization. So I ended up studying a master in organizational psychology as well. And then you started out your career, and you said you started out with a small startup that became a scale-up, and you also went to San Francisco, it looks like, uh, to join a project. Was that part of school? That was part of school. Okay, that was the last year at the Chaos Pilot. We um we had to find an internship for about six months. Uh, it could be anywhere in the world. We had to approach uh an organization where we would get that six months and identify project and so on. And uh and I had this idea that I've read about um an organization and it was also uh an organization that has already been in contact with the school uh early on. So they knew a little bit about the chaos pilots, but it was called the Chaotic Commons, and it was founded by a man called D. Hock, he was also uh part of uh the founders of the Visa uh card. And um and I really liked again that experimental way of thinking about organizations. So I I got an internship there. Yes, yeah. Oh, so it sounds like you started out in a way less corporate setting, much more like startups and innovation, and also the way Visa was organized was quite different, right? Yeah, and and so now you find yourself in an organization that's more traditional, would you say so? Or how would you describe Stark? It is uh it it is more traditional. It's it's um actually it's it's an interesting organization because it's 130 years old,

Scaling Stark Through Rapid Acquisitions

Speaker 7:55

but it doesn't feel like that always, because uh it's there's been going a lot on for these 130 years, but the last eight years uh where I've been here, eight, nine years, it's been uh we've been growing a lot, uh and we've been um driving the company in a different way, I would say, than we've we did before, where we have an operating model where we have a quite small group headquarter, uh, and then we have headquarters in each each of our business units that we work closely with, where it was uh a much bigger headquarter 10 years ago. I think we were 200, oh there were 260, yeah, and then we downsized it to 35 people. So when you joined, you were around 5,000 people in Stark? Yes, yes, all located in the Nordics, yes, all in the Nordics, yeah, and now you are around 20,000 and distributed across Northern Europe, Northern Europe, so eight, uh, ten different countries, and we have seven, seven different countries. Seven different countries, and not only the Nordics, but also Germany, Austria, the UK. We have a store in Greenland, as Greenland as well. Yes, yeah, and so so that journey from growing from 5,000 to more than 20,000 in in less than nine, 10 years, uh, that sounds like a lot. Yes. So that scaling, how how have you how have you managed that as a company? And also from seen from your uh side of the business where you take care of people, of course. I think that it's uh I think in the beginning what really came in handy was that we were a quite small team here at the group headquarters, so and it's very uh transparent. You can see that our offices here, it's all glass, it's uh we work very close together. Uh so it's also quite effective. And um so one part is that that uh we can move quite quickly, even though we are quite a big organization. Um, so when we first acquired the German market, which was at that time doubling our size, um it all went on quite quickly. Yes. And uh so so um and I would say that one of the things that uh that came in handy for me as a person is my very pragmatic way of doing things, um but but also that uh we had a small team that uh that worked very closely together on from it from day to day. And then we quickly also when we got the access to the company, went in and assessed the top management to see is this the right people to drive the change that we want to have in this organization. Should we change any of them? Should we place them otherwise elsewhere in the organization and so on? So so I would say that that was more a structured way of doing things that I've actually done before. Um and then over a period of time, it's been it's actually been quite uh interesting to see how that has evolved uh or not evolved. So so on top of that, after we got the German business, we acquired uh a whole business in the UK, which was even a bigger market. And based on the experience we had in Germany, we actually were a lot quicker in making some really tough decisions uh on how the management team should work or how that how they um what people should be in that management team. So so that was uh based on the experience, we just adapted the way that we went into that market. That's very interesting. So when you you speak about mergers and acquisitions and and did did you say you acquired them or how how did you vocalize it? What kind of language did you use? We ack we acquired both because we integrated them into to Stark. To Stark, yeah, and your values, your set of values and ways of thinking. So it was not so much like finding a culture fit that would kind of blend the two different cultures, but more like we actually know what we want and what we think about management and leadership. And what was that? What kind of values and what were you looking for when you looked at that top management to see if there was a good fit and match? That's a good question because we actually worked a lot on that. Uh,

Decency As A Performance Requirement

Speaker 12:45

because one of the core beliefs we have here in in Stark and in Stark HR is that you cannot make a really sustainable uh performance if you do not do it in a in a good way. So you have to have the the right behaviors with you as well. You have to be decent in the way that you operate. One of our core values is decency. Um so what I I in in in plain English, I would say you cannot create good results if you if you act like an asshole, honestly. Uh and when I say that to people out in our business and I say it like that, they understand it. They're like, yeah, of course. But that wasn't a given when we when we started working with the culture. Um so so we have we made actually a performance management model where um an integrated part of that, a huge part of that, was how do we measure people's behavior? Yes. Uh, and how as a as a parameter uh that is just right to the performance of the financial uh KPIs we have, the strategic KPIs and so on. Yeah, and how do you measure people's behavior? How we measure we have a very um we have a very clear leadership model that describes what kind of behavior is it that we expect from our leaders. Yes. Uh we also have all engagement surveys, for example. Uh we have uh we have uh performance talks where we an integrated part of that is also about how people are thriving and so on. So I believe most companies at our size have that, but uh but what we do is uh we make sure we have good follow-up processes and and we make sure that there is also um a consequence if we experience that people are not behaving uh according to our values. And so do you do you have to train the managers or the leaders to so so it's not, I assume, it's not only HR's responsibility to take those conversations. Absolutely not. Okay, so how how do you organize that? That would be impossible. Um what we started out doing uh seven years ago

Training Branch Managers With Local Ownership

Speaker 15:05

was that we designed a program for what we call branch managers. So we have all these stores out there, which is uh a branch for us. They also have like a distribution center around it, some of them. Um and so and some of them can be actually small businesses uh in our business. So it can be a branch can be up to a hundred people, that's the biggest branches, but they can also be four or five people. So it's really a wide range of uh of different uh types of units that you have to manage. But what is common with them was that we saw that the branch manager has the biggest impact on the value that we can create. So I designed a branch manager program uh that we together actually with our uh HR directors out in the countries, and then we sent that out and said to all our business units, it's your responsibility to to within these frames that we did here and within the behaviors that we described here to train your managers to live up to this. Yes. And then we follow up on that by um by actually monitoring uh in our engagement surveys that people can are asked Do you see this? Do you see these behaviors? Yeah, smart. Why did you choose to let the local HR professionals uh and the local managers uh implement the program rather than having like everyone fly in and do it from the corporate headquarters, or what was the thought? It's because in our DNA here at Stark, it's it's very important that there are some autonomy out there, uh, which is also something that I personally believe is the best way to do things. Um I've been part of other businesses where we did the the other way around, and I can see that even though we, for example, say we are very alike in in the Nordics, we are very different when it comes to leadership. And I can see very small things can make a huge impact. So that's also why I have this strong belief that if if we can define something that makes sense for everyone, we can find a common ground and then they can implement it in a way that actually makes sense for them and their leaders and their markets and the results that they need to create, it creates the biggest uh impact. Awesome. So so it's it sounds like you you were thinking globally or think global, but acting locally and and uh living by that, but also uh not negotiating whether those behaviors were the right ones or not. You you kind of said this is the behavior we expect, but how you train for it and live it is also culturally defined. Yes, I would say so. Yes. Uh because it can it can actually have a very different uh look and appearance when when it comes to the local market. Yes. Uh and you can make many mistakes if you think that you can just do one size fits all when it comes to this. Um so when I when I defined the leadership model, I actually did it in collaboration with the countries we had at that time. Yes. Um and when we had to implement these things in the newly required businesses, uh, it hasn't been without uh discussions, but it's been, I I would say it's been fruitful discussions in a way that they understand what is it that we actually want to achieve. And sometimes I have had also to back down because they have explained to me if you want this, we need to do it this way instead. Or this will not fly here because it sounds, it sounds wrong. Uh so I also have sometimes to just put my beliefs or my way of thinking uh somewhere aside because it it it doesn't really uh fly. Wow. So so there the the chaotic way of looking at life and how it's all uh dependent on on the people involved but also the cultures involved, and the context. And the context requires quite a span, right? Of of letting different realities live at the same time, it sounds like. And so how do you then make sure that uh a behavior, a wanted behavior, is lived on the floor? You have engagement service, of course, but but uh how do you other than that keep track of whether people actually do that or not? Live those values and behaviors? That's that's a really good question. Um I I first of all I have to say I'm not I'm not myself monitoring that. Uh the business unit is monitoring that, and then they sometimes report back to me uh what they experience. But I would say that one of the things that we have uh succeeded in incorporating in our uh local HR communities and our our leadership, uh the way we we practice leadership is actually that we are in this together. So I think that there is also a sense of if people see something that is not in line with that, they actually act on it or speak up, or you know, so I think that there is also a system where uh I think people realize that it's quite a great culture to have when when we succeed, and they're protecting that. So it becomes a system where we need to protect it. It's self-protecting because we need to protect this in order to be able to have a a place where we where we actually want to be. Yes. One of the interesting things that we start looking

The Younger Generation Retention Problem

Speaker 20:55

at now is actually how do we then create a uh an organization that is more inviting for younger generations because we can see that our our age span is is uh much above uh above 45 uh uh out in the business. And um and it's not always that they understand what it is that young people want. Uh so that's uh we haven't got a solution for that. Is that a uh uh something they've said to you, or is that something you have sent? I can see it in when we look at how many people are we getting in as apprentices, uh, and for how long do they stay after they have finished their apprentice or their internship? It's not that long. Okay. And it's and there are many different reasons for that, I think. Uh there are some structural reasons, there are some behavioral reasons, there are some leadership or leadership gaps, I would say, that they need to understand also how do we lead these young people. Yes. So uh so that's I don't have to. So you look at the Data and then uh ha have any of the local branch managers brought it up as something they also see as a challenge? Uh not that I know of, but I think that that's more because they are so focused on their sales. So they're like, oh, whoever works here, let's just uh move on. Yeah, so they're not so occupied with do we have the workforce of tomorrow or so? No, to in the future. No, exactly. But if we are not starting to have that lens now, I think we will have a problem at some time. I guess not only in Stark, but actually in the whole business, all the whole uh yeah, yes. Okay, interesting. Yeah, and this this maybe leads us to what actually brought my attention to you in the first place, which is a program you've um spearheaded. I I is that too

Selling Future Fit To Top Leadership

Speaker 22:50

much to say that you spearheaded it, uh, called Future Fit. Yeah. Um, and that sparked my curiosity because that's first of all, it it has this futuristic look and what is it actually we need, what's coming. But also um forward thinking. And and then you mentioned in the video talking about that program that emotional intelligence was a big part of that. Yes. So talk us through what does this program consist of? What what what made you think of this program in the first place? And then I would also really love to hear a little bit about how did you manage to to sell it to those who should actually accept it in the in the first place. Um that was many questions. Yes, that many maybe just you let's start with it. What is what is future fit? Future fit is our leadership program for our group people, yes. So people that worked here at group first of all. Yes. Uh, I hope in the future that we can also expand it to the senior leadership teams that we have in our business units. Yes. But I actually think that before we could do that, uh, I think we should take our own medicine uh and make sure that whatever we send out there is actually something that would be good enough that we would take it ourselves. Yes, uh, or do it ourselves. So um so it's a leadership program where we actually try to close the gap between having been uh an organization that needed to lead 5,000 people, and now we are an organization that needs to leave lead 20,000 people uh in a world that looks a little bit different. That looks a little bit different and which is ever changing. You would say that probably also 10 years ago, but it's just even uh at a bigger scale now, I would say, right? Um, and it's also different markets. So I think one of the things that uh I did to sell it in to the the XCOM was to keep talking about that I was really afraid of um that we had a huge risk if we did not try to close the gap between how do we how do we lead today and how do we need to lead in the future. I'm sorry. Um and I and the people that uh that is here at Group, uh I've honestly never been at a place where uh they are so good at what they're doing. Uh it's really great people we have here. But I also think that they're all people that weren't hadn't really been part of such a big organization or such a big transition before. No. So trying to talk about how that could be a risk, and we could actually fail in that if we just closed our eyes to it that got their attention in the end and said, okay, we can see that this is actually an uh there's something we don't know. There's something we don't know. Let's let's see how we how we close that gap or become better. Yes. Well, that that speaks to your culture because I I believe that you know many top management groups you call it ex XCOM. Yeah. Um it's it's also a sign of maturity that you admit, oh yeah, we didn't try this before. Maybe we can learn something, maybe there's something we don't know, maybe we can do it better. So so which of your values does that speak to? Is that uh actually both to decency and passion, I would say. Yeah, because there's also passion in it or ambition or whatever you would call it. Yeah. So your values are decency, passion, and pride. And pride. So that there's something about okay, let's do it as best as we can. Yeah, exactly. So you spoke to those values, it sounds like. Yeah. I never thought about it that way, but yeah. Yeah, but you kind of did, right? Yeah, it is maybe maybe that's what you did. But but that's that's just interesting how you know, how do you as HR, sometimes our roles is to convince other people that it's worth the investment or we should spend time on this. And how do we actually do that? I agree. I agree. And I think that uh one of the things that's really important for me, I think we talked a little bit about it when we first spoke on the phone. You said something about HR, and I'm like, I'm not really defining myself purely as HR. Uh, I know I'm I have a a title that's within the HR range. I'm I'm out of the HR part of the business. But for me, it it has always been trying to combine the business and HR activities. So, what is it the business calls for? How can we create something valuable to to to answer that in HR? Yeah. Um and you not only spoke to the values in this instance, this also sounds like you you presented some data, something where you could look at this as a real life problem that we might encounter, do we not do something? Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. I and I I try to do that with everything I do in my field of work. So, for example, when I had to convince the organization uh about succession planning, first they were like, we don't need succession planning because we've never done that. And it's and and I had to make a business case. So I made a business case showing how much does it actually cost us to replace a branch manager if we do not have a ready now successor? And how much does it cost us if we do have a successor ready? Uh and that's two very different prices. And then I also created uh a business case on how much does it cost us if we have a branch manager that is not really performing, but we keep him there because we say, Oh, we cannot really find anyone else in the market. That's also comes with a price tag. Yes. And when you do these business cases, people tend to listen when you are in a P backed. Yeah, it's almost uh risk management, right? Yes. Yeah. So then you got the the green light or whatever we have to call it. What does the program consist of? What the future fit program. The future fit program. Well, it's a program with many different kinds of activities, I would say, because I'm also very aware of

The Future Fit Program Structure

Speaker 29:20

that one size doesn't fit all uh and there are different learning styles. Um so we both have uh activities where we have lectures or professors or people we fly in that have uh talks uh about very important things, uh, where we are all together, and then we have uh cohorts, which are smaller groups of 10 people that we uh that we place at a small island down south that we have access to, and they are staying there for two or three days together and work collectively on a theme, but also on their own personal development. Uh, then we have one-to-one coaching, and we have uh given them the opportunity to have mentorships with other people in our organization, so we are not closing around ourselves here at group, but we're also reaching out to the business so they can uh decide if they want to have a mentor, which is out in the business, or they want to have uh a small internship where they come out and explore uh a field or an area that they're interested in. So it's not a closed loop, it's an open loop. It's an open loop, and it's um I would say I did all these different activities on purpose because I know that some of them have gained in most out of the mentorship or the internship, or some of them has gained most out of uh being in the small cohorts. Uh, and I think it's important to be able to adapt to different realities, which is also actually what the whole program is about. Yeah. So one of the themes that we have been talking a lot about is what I would say is called cross-cultural leadership, um, and understanding other people and how they behave and how they can react to you. So that's one part, but it's also for me about understanding yourself and what your reactions uh say about you and what impact it has on the team that you're leading or the people you have to work with. Um so for me it's it's also very much about uh looking at yourself. Yes, looking at uh my strength, absolutely. I know you have written a book about that, uh, but it's also to be aware of the blind spots uh and the things that people may find a little bit difficult about you, but you might not be aware yourself. Um but I try to design a program where there is room for you to identify that, look at that, get feedback on how can we how can how can you move on for that, how can you find a different way of approaching things. Yeah. And and why is it that is important in the world we live in today? And and you spoke about younger generations before, and maybe they need or require or want something different when it comes to management and leadership and so self-reflection that seems and looking at yourself and being able to do something about your weaknesses. Where where does that come from? I think it comes from that the world is changing rapidly, and if you don't know how you change with the world, then it's just status quo and you will be sitting there and you will not follow that change. So I think it's something about how do we keep up with everything that goes on around us and not lose the momentum and not lose our own development uh path and not stay still in some way. Yeah. I think that's some of the most important things for me that that you actually dare to also look at what you're doing now might not be the right thing to do tomorrow, uh, and not be freaked out about I'm not sure how I'm going to solve this task because the world has changed and now it looks different. And the world is changing in many different ways. You can see the AI, the all the wars that's going on and uh the economy, how it changes changes and so on. So it's um I think that if if we do not help people try to investigate to get that mindset, uh we will get something in the future that is not what the future calls for. No. So so it's learning agility, it's curiosity, it's staying open. Um dare to look at what's hard, not avoiding talking about the hard things. Yes. Uh so that's also something that uh is very important to me in in my life and work. Uh both of them actually, that we that we um make sure that we first of all have fun and stay curious while we do the things we do, because otherwise it just becomes a performance machine, and it's I don't think that anyone thrives in that. Um and that's also back to the sustainable performance because performance is just that's how a PE-backed environment works. But you can do that in many different ways, I believe. So the Future Fit program, the themes are uh intercultural understanding and awareness, and then it's emotional intelligence, then it's uh emotional intelligence, it's uh change management. Uh we have uh we have built it around our leadership model as well. So it's also about understanding our business uh and what that calls for. Yeah. Um, but it's also I would say it's also a program that uh when I designed it, uh I had this idea, of course, it should be built around our leadership model. Uh and it should also um it should also work with uh how we run our business, so we should address our operating model. But I I deliberately did not say that we have uh we have these sessions, these seven sessions or five sessions, I think it was, uh, and all of these sessions contains these themes. I had an idea, but when it when we were halfway, I actually changed some of the content that we had in the end because I could see that what we had experienced up to here called for something else. So it's ever-changing. It is ever changing, and I think it create I'm I mean I think again the open mindset, you need to you need to listen to the world around you to be able to do that. So one of the things that uh that I hadn't

Emotional Intelligence Change And Trust

Speaker 35:55

thought about when I sat down in the first place to design the program, that was actually how you build trust and the whole trust issue, and not just trust with your peers, but also trust upwards and trust in different nationalities because it can look different. And uh and the more that I could see that people participated in the program, I was like, we need to have something about trust in this program, yeah, and leading upwards as well. For me, it's about holding the space and being curious about what infolds here, what is it that they call for, uh, and then try to design that for them. And and then how how is it even possible to replicate it? Um and scale it. I think it actually is because there are some ground uh ground rules that we have. For example, as I said before, we have the the operating model that we need to address, we have the leadership model that we have designed the whole thing around, uh, we have the values that we would never compromise on. Um, and we have we have the idea of um what kind of behavior is it that the leadership model calls for. So in that way, it's the same, but it can change a little bit when a new group comes in. Yeah. I would say if if we did this in one of our business units, it would probably change a little bit. Yes. Uh and they would probably, if I know them well enough, call for something that is about how do we sell more? Which I wouldn't give them because as I said, I usually say to them leadership uh is not about selling things, it's it's it's actually about leading people to do to sell things if you want them to do that. But yes, you need to uh so it is kind of like sales, but in a different way than they maybe anticipate. I don't know how to phrase this, but there's something about the fact that you are a 130-year-old company living in the reality of the here and now and preparing yourself for the future. And we talked about whether you are a traditional company or not, and and where where would you put yourself on that narrative? Would would you say that Stark is a traditional old-fashioned hierarchical driven company? Well, it's it's a very broad question because it depends on how you look at the organization. So, in some ways, I would say yes, we are very we are a very traditional uh old company that works in that way. In some ways. And and what does but in what in what way? Um what makes it traditional? First of all, we have uh a lot of workers that have been with us for a very long time. So they have a whole career here, um, which is also why I think that we need to look at how do we get a new generation in and and start working

Organizational Design That Matches Strategy

Speaker 38:55

or building a pipeline with with these new talents. Um but I would say in other ways, we actually we're we are trying to look at the company and pieces of the company where we take uh, for example, one department and say, how do we make organizational design that actually fits what they're doing, what we're going to achieve in our um strategy, and that would also be fit for the future. Yeah. So so uh we've just done that with our IT department. Uh we've we're doing it with our um German business unit uh at the moment for the whole sales organization, which is the biggest part of the organization. We've done it in uh we've done it in the UK from the moment that we acquired them because when we entered there, we could see that it was they I I remember because I was part of the due diligence team where we when when we were in the in the phase of of looking at them. And um and I got this organizational chart, and I remember that at one of the consultings we had, someone from from their side of the team said, It's very it's a very lean organization, it's very structured, it's it's really well plug and play. It's plug and play and it's well designed. And I had no idea what it was I was looking at. I just didn't understand it. Okay. And I was like, all these layers, and what are this guy doing? And or what is what are these roles there for, and so on. So and I and and in the end, it just turned out that they had double layers, and I also experienced that I had I had uh conversations with um with one of the consultants that were on the team that were selling, saying, Oh, but uh, when I was asking, for example, where does business development sit? And he was he says, That depends, and I was like, depends on what? And then it just turned out that they they could have a role that were placed three different uh places in in the organization, and they didn't know each other, these three different people, and they were doing more or less the same thing. So what we did there was quite rapidly we we redesigned the whole organization and took out some layers and streamlined it even more. And that sounds horrible when I say it now, but it was actually to also make it more clear for people and the job that they were doing. Um and and we didn't always just got rid of people, we tried to replace some of them as well to to just make it more clear what is your roles, uh role and responsibility um in this new setup. So so part of what you are actually doing is is also looking at the organizational design and is it fit for the here and now, but also for the future? Yes. And that might from the outside look like you're just streamlining everything and making it uh clear and visible and uh logical uh also. Sometimes it is like that. And that may still be traditional, but that works, yes, and that gives that clarity. I would say it yes, it it uh sounds traditional and in some ways it is traditional. Uh but I but I also would say that the way we do it is that we take the the strategy that we have defined and say, is this department organized in a way so they can actually deliver on this? Yes. And a lot of the times the answer is no. And then you do and then you do something, yeah. Yes. How often do you do that? Um that depends. It's I I mean, it's often huge project projects. So uh and it's it's uh even though that we are involved from here, it's uh it's organized out in the countries, so they have to they have to implement the solution in the end. Yeah. So okay. I think this is so interesting because there's something about you being um able to change with the circumstances at hand, yeah. And that doesn't to me sound traditional. No, it sounds like you are adaptive, yeah. But that's also why I'm saying it's it's it's a mix in this organization because I would say if you go out into one of our stores, it's still very traditional, and and the people there are very uh they work more or less the same way, but I can but there has been a cultural shift. So one little thing, and that's just a minor thing, but it also says something about the business we are in. When I entered, I I remember it was still quite common that down in the the lunch room they would have uh calendars with naked girls, which is just like a a thing that they do in this business. And uh and we have uh Uh we have a CEO in Denmark that's female, and she was like, I'm just going to forbid this. And she got rid of them. I can't say if they still something some they are still, but I I think that they are gone. It was a signal. But it's a signal. And it's a little piece of showing what kind of culture is it that we want here. Yeah. Yeah. And then a debate around why is it that she has that request? Yeah. Yeah. And also the way that you we talk to each other, because we are serving customers that can have a rough language, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we are going to have a rough language. And how do you how do you react if you experience uh a customer having a rough language towards one of your colleagues? Do you just stand there and look at it, or do you actually interfere and help that colleague that might be standing there and has just freezed because it's a it's it's an unpleasant situation? Exactly. Yeah. So that's also something that we that we are working with. How do you differ from your competitors? Uh I I think uh or I know that we differ a lot by having the operating model

Autonomy With A Few Non-Negotiables

Speaker 45:15

that we have. So having a very small tight group uh office uh headquarter is not how they operate the other uh our competitors. No. Um so so we we really try to have as much autonomy out in our business units so they can drive their business the best way for their market. Yes. Uh for example, here at Group, we do not have any uh we do not have any sales, uh group salespeople, we do not have any uh commercial people, we do not have any logistic people. Um that's all out in the business unit, and it's uh it's organized in a way that fits their market the best way. Yeah. How are you organized in HR? Um but it's more or less the same as in um in the rest of our company. We have uh a small HR department here at group, um, and then we have HR departments out in the in the businesses. So at group we have uh we have the area that I run, which is all the development things that are related to HR. Then we have an operational uh department, and then we have uh a rewards department. So it's uh so that's the three areas we have here. Uh and we are very much aligned with what's going on out in the businesses, and and we have we work closely with with all our um stakeholders out there. How do you position yourself? Is that okay to ask you uh towards we can always to watch your colleagues? Is it is it like this is my peer, or this is my stakeholder, or this is someone I need to serve, or is this someone I need to tell something? Or that there's many there are many different ways you can meet people. I like that question actually because it's uh it's it also says something about our culture. Exactly. Um I think I see them as someone I have to co-create things with. Yeah. So they are my colleagues. And and how does that differ from meeting them maybe as someone you need to tell something? Or well, I try not to tell people a lot. Like you have to do this. I try to make things that are so great so they want it. Uh that's also the narrative we have at group uh HR. So there are very few things from our perspective that we say you must do this. I think there is only a handful. One of them is that we need to have the same way we do engagement surveys so we can compare. Uh we need to have the same HR uh system so we have data the same way. That's a non-negotiable. That's a non-negotiable. Yeah. We need to they need to follow what we agree on group level, but I but that's co-created with them. Yeah. The way that we um make the leadership program for our branch managers, for example. So um, so there are things where of course it's not negotiable, but it's it's very few things that is like that. We have the same code of conduct training, but that's about it. Oh wow. Yes. Great. So I think we're nearing the end. Um, is there anything I haven't asked you yet that you would like to add or something that you think is is interesting for people to hear about when it comes to no, I I don't know. I think uh what I was thinking about in preparation for this meeting was that what's important for me is of course the

Sustainable Performance And Staying Future Fit

Speaker 49:05

why are we doing things, but it's also the how. And I think that uh having these things going hand in hand with we need to create results, but we need to do it in a sustainable way, is what is actually core of the way that I want to work uh in an organization. And why is that important? Because why does it have to be sustainable? Because if if uh it's back to where we started about if if we are not uh decent in the way that we we are with other people, uh they don't want to work with us. They find somewhere else to do. It's as simple as that. And I think that if we lose our spark, we also lose I would say the possibility to create something great. Uh so we need to keep that sparkle. And I don't believe, and that's a belief I would say, that people are are only driven by creating results for an organization. They're also driving about they are also driven by having a great place to work. Um they are driven about being in an environment where we actually create each other or or treat each other in a great way. Yeah. And and where they can bring their personality to work. Absolutely. Yeah, and their passion. And their passion. Yes, your value system. Yeah. Great addition to what we've been talking about. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you also in your questions asked me about uh what inspires me. Yes, and also how you keep yourself future fit. Oh, that's that was the question. Something we haven't touched upon yet. Okay. Uh how I create myself or how how I stay future fit. I think that uh I try, of course, I intend uh conferences for HR people sometimes, but that's not the most important things to stay ahead of my game, I would say. It's really to listen to other perspectives than the ones that I come from. So, for example, I just started to be a mentor for students at ITU that has great ideas. So I'm a startup uh mentor for those, for some of those people. Um so one thing is that they are young and they come with fresh perspective. I actually think that's a a very good thing as well, that team up with someone that's not your own age, older, younger. I have a really great friend who is 82, and uh and I have uh actually one of the one of the people that I also find great uh inspiration in is is my student assistant that comes from CBS. I mean he has great perspective on many, many things. Um but it's also to be aware of what actually creates peace for me, because peace for me is clarity in my work and my decisions. Uh so that's everything from making sure I spend enough time with my kids, making sure I have enough time off. Uh I spend time in nature, I knit all those things. So I I nurture my creative side because otherwise it's uh it becomes blurry for me somehow. And so that's inspiration for me as well. Wow. I love that answer. That's because it's it's unusual. So very often people say, Well, I take this course or I I go to whatever, you know, summer school or within our fields, within the same area of line of learning, which is inspirational to some. But you you touch on something very basic, also very human basics that many of us perhaps forget on a day-to-day basis. Yeah that we need to be grounded and in touch and slow down. That's actually if I can give people a little part of that in the future fit program as well. I I think I've I've done a lot. Because I think that they can they tend to forget as well. Yeah. Or people tend to forget. We do, yeah. Right. But maybe this is just the most beautiful way to end this. And it's been such a pleasure speaking with you about both your career and what brought you here and how you organized yourself, but also learning about the Future Fit program. Thank you so much, Britt. Thank you. You've been listening to the Work in Progress podcast on people and culture. If you enjoyed

Closing Thoughts And Where To Learn More

Speaker 53:55

this episode, please feel free to share on social media. For more resources on people, culture, and working in a modern world, please visit get session.com and check out our articles, guides, webinars, and more. Thanks for listening.